Hide Jacket Durability

[phrige]

Hi,

I was curious as to peoples experiences with Brain Tanned Buckskin. How weather resistant have you found it to be? Im lookin to get into some tanning this rut season, I wish the outcome to be a nice buckskin Jacket. If smoked properly what have you guys found “Street value” time on it to be.. ive read various books and heard lectures on it. But getting caught in the rain, used in high wind situations etc. I really wanna know does it stay tanned properly for a good length of time?

Also yea the various goodies when dealing with brains –mad cow ..etc- would merely being careful with it and wearing latex gloves be enough to circumvent any problems 99% of the time. Aside from glove tears and accident ally wiping your face ( I can see that one coming)

Any idears would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Peter

[LDS]

Dealing with the last question first. Dependin on you location you can get into chronic wasting disease. You can get around that by using beef brains from the grocery, which work just as well.

Duribility? Depends on the state of the origional hide and how thin you scrape them. I have seen buckskins that had been worn for fifteen or twenty years, two or three weeks each year, and held up pretty well. I am around a lot of buckskin clothing due to heavy reenactment activity.

In the old days the master craftsmen were required to furnish their apprintaces with one pair of breeches each year. Those breeches were normally deerskin. That is one reason that the "Longhunters" existed and the Indian fur trade developed. 1.5 million hides were taken out of the southeastern US each year during the 1700s. Most of them wound up being converted into breeches or leatherhosen. A good pair would last for a year of hard use.

Weather proof? Nope! You can smoke them, grease them, rub braisn into them untill you are blue and they will still soak up water. Those nice chamois you buy at the auto parts place to wash your car are the same thing as brain tanned deer hide. Think about it.

Even in the olden days the pioneers considered buckskin one step above being naked. The Natives abandoned hide clothing as soon as traders came into their regions. In bad weather buckskin is cold, wer and has no insulation ability.

Buckskins look nice, but there are many better clothing choices around.

[phrige]

Thanks for the quick post LDS, yea the beef brains i thought of after i posted too, thats a good suggestion. I'm going to look into that.

I may try Bark Tanning with this first hide too, just out of curiousity. Id like to see how that comes out.

I appreciate your input on the durability, thats exactly what i was looking for. Chamois is a great comparison, i was afraid of that. I was looking for something a bit beefier, to make a nice durable jacket with. I guess im better off setting my sights on buffalo or elk or moose. I think there is a Buffalo 'farm' near me. I've only heard about it in passing, but it maybe a facility that makes buffalo burgers etc. get some nice sinew and skins (if possible). i'll have to look into it.

I'm not expecting to go out in a deluge with this thing, but some water repellant qualities are important to me. Soaking up water will just not work. I'll still make a nice fair weather jacket or shirt with it either way.

Where are the re-enactments you usually goto? I'll fair to guess they maybe posted under the events thread on this board, ill have to check in a bit. I've been to a few smaller events here in Northern NJ, and am always looking to find new ones. I must say, re-enactment folk are some of the nicest folk. I had the opportunity to sit around a camp fire late into the evening with a few of them, One of my friends had a native american goods table set up so he was my 'in' so to speak. It was a really great time.


Thanks again.

[dixieangler]

I'm not expecting to go out in a deluge with this thing, but some water repellant qualities are important to me. Soaking up water will just not work. I'll still make a nice fair weather jacket or shirt with it either way.

There are modern water repellent sprays for clothes. Now how well that works, how long it lasts, and what affects it has on the material I don't know.

[Bernoulli]

Thanks for the quick post LDS, yea the beef brains i thought of after i posted too, thats a good suggestion. I'm going to look into that.

Just make sure your beef brains are from a vegetarian or "natural" cow. Beef cattle are routinely fed protein supplements made from cow blood and chicken manure. Prions, the cause of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE or mad cow disease), can't be killed. Chickens are fed feed that comes from downed cows so.... Regardless of what you read, science knows one of the ways that TSE can be transmitted, but they don't know the others. There is an article today in the NYT that says maybe chronic wasting disease (Deer and elk TSE) is caused by feed or feces. They're guessing. Last year the University of Colorado said maybe grooming and licking a bit of blood on an infected animal. I'm sure they would like to find a culprit since they probably started chronic wasting disease in the U.S. by feeding captive deer and elk sheep and cattle feed made partially of downed animals.

[coon4492]

wait am I reading this right deer brains are infected with a disease and are therefore dangerous to touch? So if I want to brain tan a hide I have to go to the stupid supermarket and buy cow brains? that sucks! it seems like any animal you can hunt has a deadly disease on it.

[LDS]

Not all of them. Cronic Wasting Disease is restricted to deer and has not jumped the species barrier that we know. It tends to appear in areas where the deer heard is overpopulated and concentrated, like in the north where the deer go to feed lots/runs to winter in as a heard. You can check your state WMA site to see if it is in your area.

And it does appear to be a prion based problem, so it could jump the species barrier, like Mad Cow. Who knows.

There is a recipe for tanning hides with organically made lye or castiele soap (olive oil based). Lewis and Clark troop tanned hides using tallow candles at one point. You just need sufficient narural fat to replentish the oils in the hide that you have scraped and leeched out.

The Indians often did not really brain tan, they sometimes just chewed the hides to soften and preserve them. simplest method in the world. Old eskimo women were put out of the iglo when their teeth were gone and they could no longer chew hides.

Brain tanning does not actually require brains. I once did 10 hides at one time by dehairing the hides in my creek, then using a diluted battery acid bath in two big rubbermaid garbage cans, followed by several hours in the clothes dryer on no heat fluff setting with a couple of old tennis shoes thrown in. They required only minor "breaking" and then treatment with neetsfoot oil. I hung them on a fence and smoked them over maple punk-wood. they turned out a nice gold.

There are also recipes that call for antifreeze and all sorts of goodies. There are also whole websites tha t cater to brain tanners.

Buffalo and elk are very thick hides, and extremely heavy. A jacket of either hide would probably push 10 pounds weight.

I use elk for moccasins. The elk uppers will last me for years if I put a pigskin sole on them. Elk will run about 3/16" thick and is tough as nails.

Buffalo is just too thick for anything i have to do with a hide. It usually runs nearly 1/4" thick and you can not get a good turned seam on it. It is so strong that much of the industrial revolution machinery was powered by long leather drive belts made from buffalo hide. That was what wiped out the heards on the plains back in the 1870s. Those mountains of hides were being turned into industrial machienery.

[phrige]

10lbs is not exactly what I imagine for a leisure jacket. Very good things to consider all around. Thanks for the tips, I’m going to do some more research on all this. Either way I need to work on my tanning skills so I will be using buckskin to start. I’ll post pics once everything’s said and done.
I have seen that spray stuff made for moccasins that make it waterproof + stain proof. I’ll look into that as well, that could be a good alternative. Otherwise it’ll just have to be a fair weather jacket.

And coon4492 I couldn’t agree with you more, i don’t know if its our modern industrialization or what, but shucks our woods and animals are getting pretty sick in many areas. It breaks my heart, and puts up a red flags when workin on these skills. Amongst other things one annoyance that has been a problem in my neck of the woods is ticks carrying lyme disease. Certain forests around here have huge numbers of ticks, and it makes you think, why bother going out there at all if its just severe problem or another? My conclusion is, there are enough preventative measures and if your doing your part to take em’ then you’ll be alright. In this case whether its organic beef brains I need to use or go into vegetable tanning, i don’t mind, as long as I get to work on my skills while in the mean time trying to help out the bigger picture.

I’ll also add, it was great going to (Southern) Poland to visit family. In the small village, you take a 45/60min hike up into the mountains, the forests there are extremely pure. Dont have to worry about a lot of these problems, at least as much. (theres always that % of ticks and other ills that you cant seem to escape.)

How have you guys faired with sewing and clothes making with skins? Is hand sewing the only way or are any kind of sewing machines an option?

[dixieangler]

it seems like any animal you can hunt has a deadly disease on it.

And coon4492 I couldn’t agree with you more, i don’t know if its our modern industrialization or what, but shucks our woods and animals are getting pretty sick in many areas. It breaks my heart, and puts up a red flags when workin on these skills.

Human overpopulation has a lot to do with it but diseases have always been there, we just have new strains popping up that compound the problems (the microorganisms adapt to grow stronger and more resistant). Some of it also has to do with invasive species that take over and destroy native populations of plants and animals. Limited space, shrinking habitat, certain plants and animals overpopulation (very little or no culling results is stunted and unhealthy plant and animal populations, more chances for diseases to thrive), all these things put stress on the natural systems and can get to the point where they cannot support some large populations. I think the diseases would be less if these things were corrected so there are healthy plant and animal populations.

How have you guys faired with sewing and clothes making with skins? Is hand sewing the only way or are any kind of sewing machines an option?

Hand sew if you want to stay primitive. LOL Sinew and Yucca or Agave fibers are great sewing threads. Use a Yucca, Agave, or bone needle. Bone needle and sinew would probably be better for buckskin. A good hardwood needle could work also.

[Bernoulli]

I remember learning that cow leather in Paraguay was no good because the cattle there had so many ticks that the skin was full of holes. I recently ran into a guy from Paraguay and asked him about it. They cut down the forests where the birds lived that ate the ticks to grow cattle. Recently there has been some replanting of the forest in strips and birds are coming back and eating the ticks.

[phrige]

Yea its one thing after another, us humans are really striking out with nature. Though, lately I get the impression that people on the whole are starting to realize ‘we done bad’, even aside from the posh green movement. It’ll take a bit but maybe things will get closer to their true harmonious beauty. That’ll be the day.
Speaking of which anybody get to watch the latest Ken Burns PBS special on National Parks? very interesting. Shows the real charity of a lot of different people, and how people really stepped up to put these parks together.Especially getting things through congress/the governmental process.
oh and not to mention the incredible scenic and wildlife shots.

That’s incredibly interesting about the Paraguay deer, I hope things get better over there.. That’s really rough.
Keeping it primitive seems like the most enjoyable route and an especially nice winter project. Sinew sewing seems like a good bet, if I have buckskin ill have sinew, plus maybe beef brains butcher will be willing to part with some. Gatta stock up, sinew is like the primitive duct tape. I’ll see how it all goes for me, and I’ll keep you guys updated. Thanks for the tips.

[coon4492]

by the way phrige hows the deer hunting been over in NJ I'm seeing more bucks than usual around these woods in southeastern PA so it seems like a promising season.

[phrige]

You know what coon, i was looking forward to doing some bow hunting this season but i didnt get my stuff together in time. I know theres still a bit of the season left, but i dont feel like scrambling to get things together. So for now im going to have to resort to roadkill buck, for better or worse. But i will agree, from the time ive spent in the woods/in my small town you always see them grazing on the roadside, theres a good crop for sure.
Im starting to see some bucks turn up as roadkill by the highway. Nice ones too.

If you'r goin out hunting best of luck. I'll be sure to get set up early for next season

[coon4492]

thanks phrige but you might still catch the later bowseason in winter although Its usually unsuccessful since rifles are going off all the time. Its good to use roadkill anyways that way the animals death wasn't a waste.

[Kingoftheflock]

There are modern water repellent sprays for clothes. Now how well that works, how long it lasts, and what affects it has on the material I don't know.

they work pretty well, me and my dad used to put it on anything from baseball gloves to hiking boots. my hiking boots dont absorb water as easily as they did and its worth your time to apply it.

Though, lately I get the impression that people on the whole are starting to realize ‘we done bad’, even aside from the posh green movement. It’ll take a bit but maybe things will get closer to their true harmonious beauty. That’ll be the day.

you know a group did a study that showed the planet hasnt been this healthy in over a hundred years. acid and chemical levels in water, endangered speices wise, and littering are actually pretty low...exept rhode island.

And coon4492 I couldn’t agree with you more, i don’t know if its our modern industrialization or what, but shucks our woods and animals are getting pretty sick in many areas. It breaks my heart, and puts up a red flags when workin on these skills.

no thats the bad chemicals in the water that industrialism has caused, like a way to pull off a bottled water scam. if i remember correctly the diseases are the same theyve been for well...thousands of years. the only one i can think of that was created from industrialism is MRCA from stupid people not finishing off a bottle of antibiotics that is given to them, but it isnt really widespread yet.