Books

[dixieangler]

Ordered several new (meaning I just bought them, they have been around for quite a while) books. Guess its book review time. While they are good, John & Geri McPherson's Primitive Wilderness Living & Survival Skills and Tom Brown Jr.'s Guide to Wilderness Survival are still the best I have seen and still rely on. Two were books suggested by Les Stroud (in some post by him on some other forum) after McPherson's book. Outdoor Survival Skills by Larry Dean Olsen was very good and well written with photos from his own experiences and from teaching his own survival schools. Good solid primitive skills here in this book and worth buying. Bear in mind that this book leans toward the Great Basin area of the US and the relevant natural materials found there. Bushcraft by Mors Kochanski is a good book for its intended purpose, meaning that it is "mostly" a book about wood working bush tools (ax, knife, etc.) and their correct and proper selection, use, care, and safety. Other types of tools made from natural materials also. Mostly illustrations rather than photos. This book leans heavily toward the Northern climate of the US and Canada, so there are a lot of references to Moose and Birch trees that does me no good in the extreme South. LOL I have ordered and am waiting on McPherson's follow up book (book 2) Primitive Wilderness Skills, Applied & Advanced.

[LDS]

Dixie,
You have touched on one of the great irritations of my outdoor life, the lack of works on the southeastern forests. Even Kephart, who wote one of the all time great works, did not aim his work at the southeast, where he did most of his outdoor work. His two volume set is still in the top ten best sellers of all time and he almost single handedly established the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, which is the most visited NP in the nation.

Seems everything I read now is aimed at the western dweller, either mountains, high plains or southwest desert. In the old days it was the "great north woods".

Even though several of the best outdoor writers of our time honed their shooting skills on southern game in the southern states, they seem to abandon our area for the call of Alaska and African plains game as soon as they sell a manuscript.

Could not someone do a good work on that area that ranges from hardwood highlands to saw palmento?

Is it a fear of no market, due to the reputation that we southern folk lack reading skills?

[dixieangler]

You have touched on one of the great irritations of my outdoor life, the lack of works on the southeastern forests.

Could not someone do a good work on that area that ranges from hardwood highlands to saw palmento?

Is it a fear of no market, due to the reputation that we southern folk lack reading skills?

You hinting something? LOL I would love to put together or even collaborate with someone to do some deep South and extreme South written primitive skills works. Shoot, even the Southeast. I just don't have the time at the moment but I would like to try and make the time. Someone far more experienced than me who has lived here and grown up in the woods here their whole life should do it. I mean I have lived here my whole life growing up in these woods but I am still learning about a lot of things here I never knew before. I wouldn't even mind some primitive skills work by a Seminole or Mikasuki (a branch of the Seminole) as long as it doesn't have too much gambling in it. LOL They would probably stand a better chance of getting a written book for this area of the US than someone like me. I can't claim any Seminole blood in my ancestry. LOL

As for the last question, yeah I'm just a dumb hick (read Florida Cracker) with a bachelor degree in Industrial Operations Management. LOL I think that most book publishing is controlled by Northern and/or Leftist interests and yes the great divide (read Mason/Dixon Line) on States Rights (see the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution) still exist between the states so not much on Southern thought will get through. That would open folks up to a line of thinking that to them is frankly unthinkable. They are still hung up on slavery and still think that is what the fighting was all about and you will never convince them otherwise even with facts (read those of us who had relatives that were Confederate soldiers and know what they fought for even if others don't). A lot of Southern boys went to their grave for States Rights and brainwashed folks spit on them for it. Enough of opening that can of worms. I did not want to go there with this subject but there are some negative things created by others that are beyond our control that we simply cannot be positive about. The lack of Southern authors runs as deep as the division that still exists between the states and even the Southern historical authors that get published omit the truth and paint a rosy picture (nothing negative about a Northern run Government) just to be able to get published. How well do you think Southern facts and thought would be received in Northern states and on the Left Coast? Censorship? Yep in an underhanded sort of way. He who wins gets to write his own history and we know how that turned out. I don't like being negative and all those negative waves. LOL

[coon4492]

Is it a fear of no market, due to the reputation that we southern folk lack reading skills?

most northerners long abandoned that old stereotype well except for newyork they aren't always that nice even to their pennsylvania neighbors

Alot of times I have a problem with books focusing only on western plains areas which does me no good at all. Alot of other books talk alot about the northern canadian reigon which can sometimes be useful to me. Would be nice if someone started a book series of primitive skills for a specific state like a pennyslvania primitive skills book focusing on only local plants and animals. It would help you guys out the most since almost no one ever seems to write to much about southern primitive skills. Infact most books I read the only time they mention the southern wilderness is when they are talking about the swamp bed as a shelter.

[LDS]

I have noted that when one speask of the "midwest" they get a relitively uniform concept of climate and environment that remains constant through OH, IN, IL, IW and into MO. Rolling farmland with mixed hardwoods, cold winters, comfortable summers, fat deer and pheasants out the wazoo.

When you say "southeast" you get everything from the VA peidmont to the Smokey Mts down to the MissippI delta and into the palm trees of FL. There is a huge range of climate and environments with New Orleans and upper east TN having nothing in common. Just like the Everglades NP and the Great Smokey Mountains NP are so distinctly different. You cover both temprate and humid sub-tropical ranges.

I do not know how one person could amass the knowledge needed to cover the entire area, or even to edit a compiled work, which sounds like the way to go. Have a native of each general area do a seperate section on their habitat, then have the whole edited by someone that already has a reputation and some pull.

Southeastern Survival
"A Multi-Habitat Approach"

edited by ???????

We used to get a lot of the edited rewrite of grad school research papers when I was in grad school. A prof would wait untill the students had graduated and edit a compiled group of papers dealing with one specific subject. the prof got credit for publication, the royalties and the students never knew they were in print.

[dixieangler]

I do not know how one person could amass the knowledge needed to cover the entire area, or even to edit a compiled work, which sounds like the way to go. Have a native of each general area do a seperate section on their habitat, then have the whole edited by someone that already has a reputation and some pull.

Southeastern Survival
"A Multi-Habitat Approach"

edited by ???????

Yep. That's the ticket. One state for one chapter on the Southeast. One chapter done by a native or natives of that state. Edited by somebody like McPherson. Brown might if there were some Seminoles. LOL Just kidding.

We used to get a lot of the edited rewrite of grad school research papers when I was in grad school. A prof would wait untill the students had graduated and edit a compiled group of papers dealing with one specific subject. the prof got credit for publication, the royalties and the students never knew they were in print.

Yeah, I have heard of that sort of thing going on before. The professor should be prosecuted for plagiarism and lose his job.

Oh BTW, I just got McPherson's Book 2 Primitive Wilderness Skills Applied & Advanced in the mail today. It is good showing more of the skills and a few extra skills like the Quickie Bow, the Dugout Canoe, and Squirrel Skin Shoes (you heard right, squirrel skin shoes) or maybe a little more on the same skills such as Containers, Flint Knapping, Shelters, etc. Skills in action. Good book.

[hatman]

Under the advice here I have been trying to get McPherson's "Primitive Wilderness Living and Survival Skills", unsuccessfully thus far. None of the large online companies have it in stock, used seems to be the only option at this point but I am stingy when it comes to used books (not willing to go above $20 especially if it's a paperback). I believe the sequel book is similarly unavailable. My question is about the more recent release from McPherson: "Ultimate Guide to Wilderness Living..." in 2008. Anyone looked at this? How would it stand up in comparison to the other two? Would it be suited for what I'm looking for? Specifically, my interest in this area is general; it's a hobby mainly. I try to camp a lot, like to be prepared. That being said, when I get into a hobby I can get intensely absorbed by it, learning and practicing a lot. I would likely never attempt extended survival - first since I have a respect for how risky and difficult it would be, even with years of practice, and second I have an intestinal condition which requires medication and monitoring - but I would like to at least learn some basics in several of these skills. I've been working on fire mainly for a couple months now. Still not able to do the really hard ones like hand drill or fire plow, but I'm confident in my abilities with the bow drill and ferro rod/ flint and steel. I've gathered that the 1993 book by McPherson is widely recommended as a general text but given that it's proving difficult to obtain and that the newer book is widely available (fairly cheap too) I'm wondering if it would be a decent choice given what I'm looking for. Thanks.

[dixieangler]

I order all my McPherson books and DVDs now straight from John at his and Geri's web-site but I ordered the first book PWL&SS at a local bookstore. I place a mail order and John sends it but it can be ordered directly from the web-site. John is very accommodating as far as how you want to place an order. As far as I am concerned, PWL&SS is the standard by which all other primitive skills books are measured because this book is almost step by step with photos. The second book PWS,A&A is a follow up to the skills with some advanced skills all being applied. To put it in simple terms, the first book PWL&SS is the standard or the cake. LOL All that John and Geri does after the first book is just icing on the cake. LOL His and Geri's DVD videos are pretty good also.

I did not even know there was such a thing as "Ultimate Guide to Wilderness Living...". I only know of three books that are available on his and Geri's web-site, "How-to Build this Log Cabin for $3,000", "Primitive Wilderness Living & Survival Skills", and "Primitive Wilderness Skills, Applied & Advanced". See John and Geri McPherson's web-site link below.

http://www.prairiewolf.net/store/Store_ ... N=24409458

All books and DVDs ordered from the McPhersons are new as far as I know. Each new book or copy is about $24.95 and I think that includes the S&H. I think the DVDs are the same price each also.

Ah. Okay. I did a search on the site for "Ultimate Guide to Wilderness Living" and found a question and John's reply on 11/28/06. Same book as the first book just revised with some things from PWS,A&A.

You've somehow seen the NEW title before us. Really not a new book but a slight revision of the old “Primitive Wilderness Liviing & Survival Skills”. Ulysses Press bought the rights for a non-exclusive reprinting of that title - editing the old (better than I did), adding a chapter or two chapter from our “Applied & Advanced” book. Same info. You'd have to contact them for a review copy which won't be available until I proof the proof sitting at my feet waiting for me to have the time - next week likely.

I do have a rough draft for another, as yet untitled work dealing with mostly same skills versed differently, centered around our teaching of the SF SERE instructors. This I hope would be of interest to many and I'd be more than happy to forward a copy to you if I ever get the time to sit long enought to put it together - most probably next year. If I could make proper arrangements I'd also like to do about the same with DVD but lots of planning for that to work tho easier than still photos and words. Just tough for me to shoot and do at same tiime.

[coon4492]

hatman get the book of amazon.com thats were I got it. it came to my house really quick too.

[Fjolnirsson]

Hatman,

Here's a link. http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=Primitive%20Wilderness%20Living%20and%20Survival%20Skills&sourceid=Mozilla-search

[hatman]

Yes I am aware of the monolith called Amazon. I did order the book from them back in September, after about four weeks they canceled the order saying they couldn't locate any copies of the book. Now it appears they have them in stock. Regardless, it seems the "Ultimate Guide..." book is the better deal as, according to the Prarie Wolf web site dixieangler posted a link to, it is the same book just reprinted by a different publisher under a revised title:

NEW BOOK NOTICE! We have had a new edition of our old book, “Primitive Wilderness Living & Survival Skills", recently published - titled “Ultimate Guide To Wilderness Living”. The cover and the title has changed but the contents are almost exactly the same. A good book and a great buy - just the same contents presented in a different order. The cost is $10 less than our existing title. It is not available on this site nor thru us. We authorized this printing to reach sales outlets (main-line book stores, etc) that we as individuals have been unable to reach over the years. DO NOT confuse this as a completely new work, buy it and get mad at us. Same book - slightly modified at 40% less cost.

$10.85 versus $22.45, hmm...

[coon4492]

that had confused me when I saw that on the prarie wolf website

[dixieangler]

Hatman is right. The new revised book UGTWL is less but the same book as PWL&SS with a few chapters from PWS,A&A and also edited by the publishing company rather than by John. Better deal. I already have the originals so I don't need UGTWL but its a great price for basically the same book and he would be better off getting UGTWL. But obviously John doesn't sell the new book on his web-site so you would have to order it through a dealer. I completely missed the home page and that opening paragraph on the web-site. As you can tell, I don't go to the home page. LOL

[dixieangler]

I already have the originals so I don't need UGTWL but its a great price

LOL

I just picked up a copy of UGTWL as a birthday gift for my sister. I also ordered a copy for myself (see LOL above) . The copy that was on the shelf was the only one the bookstore had. I thought that I would find it in the nature section if it was in the store at all and did not find it there so I ordered two copies at the clerk desk. The clerk told me that he did have a copy on hand in the sports section. Sure enough it was in the sports section. LOL So I bought that copy and the clerk told me that I could just buy one of the two that were on order when they came in. I did get to thumb through the book before I gave it to my sister and it is basically the same as PWL&SS or Book 1 with some things like containers from PWS, A&A or Book 2. Just smaller print and smaller photos with different editing. I did notice that some things from Book 1 were left out, not major things but some things (photo plates, etc.) like the Quickie Bow (Juniper Bow) in the Chapter 9 Primitive Tools section at the back of Book 1. At least I don't think I saw it in UGTWL if it is in there. I really did not get a good look at the UGTWL Tool chapter to see if it was there.

Anyway, it seems to be a good condensed version of Book 1 at a lower cost. I hope this UGTWL is doing well for John & Geri on sales. My sister was thrilled by all the skills covered when she leafed through it. She said it would be an Ultimate, Ultimate if water, edible and medicinal plants were added at the end. I tried to explain to her that this was a skills book rather than a total human needs book and that there were other books that covered those particular areas. I also explained to her that no one can live a wilderness life completely and hope to survive indefinitely due to medical needs that go far beyond first aid and natural medicinal or holistic remedies. Internal problems such as internal bleeding and so on that require a medical doctor and modern tools. Most folks just died prematurely before the advent of modern medicine. Now folks are living to a ripe old age. I told her, "You work in medical records at the hospital and you ought to know that." LOL

[dixieangler]

John's reply about UGTWL:

Hey Robert;

Yep, UGTWL is basically a reorganized copy of NW1. Ulysses Press approached us about picking up our book(s) - as have two other publishers in the past. Previously they anted 100% rights to old versions and pay us a small stipend which would then be taken back out of any royalties. I said to them, please show me how this will be of benefit to me and I'll be glad to get out of the day to day hassles of publishing. They couldn't and so I didn't. Then along came Ulysses. The wanted to reprint, changing name and reorganizing the chapters. I kept all rights to NW1 (&NW2) and the basic info that we have would be distributed by a “real” publisher and that would in effect get the book into book stores that small Prairie Wolf could not reach. This gave us wider audiences and did not interfere with our set up as is. Win-win.

You are correct in that this book is about “skills” 408 pages as is. Each chapter takes up 35-38 pages. Adding info about plants was in my original plans but further study convinced me that I was better off not including it - but I did fill that void with a chapter in NW2 on nutrition. Yes, I probably could have done something quick on water - illustrating how to disinfect (boiling chapter 5 and containers chapter 7 & and adding something on obtaining it might have been better - but I didn't. Skills.