Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

General discussion about wilderness survival, all aspects (except topics covered in the other forums here).

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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby LDS » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:48 am

Probably not the soviet wilderness. The background info just says wildernesses or the world. I would suspect that is was areas of the former British colonial structure.

The years 1967-1977 were a special time for many of us.
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby OzaawaaMigiziNini » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:50 am

Another side of the picture has to be looked at.

Though as a First Nation, I despise my culture being a selling point for any school (like te Teaching Drum does to my very nation's culture), I have sat among Lipan Apaches (whom Tom Brown claims Stalking Wolf to be of). They have all heard Tom tell his stories of Stalking Wolf. They have accepted them all as true, and even have Tom involved with their programs and ceremonies.

Now... I'm no expert, but if it's good enough for them, than well.. it's good enough for me to leave it be.
And when they heard of the dead, some mocked... and others said we will hear thee again, of this matter - Acts 17:32
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby LDS » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:54 pm

Where have you been Ozaa. We have not heard from you in months!
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby dixieangler » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:59 pm

Heyyyy, Oza!

I can understand your sentiment and I agree with you if it is a generalized selling point (could be any Native Indian culture) but things are different here where I live and one Native Indian Nation here speaks for itself. I'm down here in Seminole land. Home of Seminole Indian Casino and the FSU Seminoles. lol The Seminole Nation here makes money on FSU and have an agreement with the school. They "want" FSU and its money. They do not take kindly to others including the NCAA for trying to make the use of their Nation's namesakes (that they lend out and make money on) into a racial injustice which it is not according to their agreement with the school. Others and the NCAA had to butt out of the Seminole's business which it is, literally a business. I can understand if the Seminole Nation said "no" or they were used without permission but that just is not the case here.

I don't know about Brown's claim to his background but I do know I have two of his books and what I have read seems to be legitimate as I have done many of those skills. So while I can't speak to his background, I can speak that many of the skills in those two books do work and are legitimate.
- Robert M.

"I can do all things through Christ, who strengtheneth me." - Paul, c. A.D. 60 (Philippians 4:13)
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby coon4492 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:58 pm

I think Brown was just another woodsman like you or me, he probably just made alot of this stuff up to help sell his school and his books. Maybe he thought if he told people a Native American taught him these skills they would take him more seriously. Again I still don't doubt his wilderness knowledge he definetly knows what he's doing but I think he keeps the indian stuff to help boost sales.
"The diference between danger and food supply is simply the presence of a killing tool."

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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby HeritageFarm » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:05 pm

I have read his field guide and found it to be extremely useful and knowledgeable. I also have 3 of his more philosophical books, which I regularly read for enlightenment. Some of the tales are rather far-fetched, but, hey, who am I to judge? Anything is possible, honestly, though if you're not Christian you might find some of the stuff disagreeable. I suppose a Christian would find a lot to disagree with, though as a Christian I have found little to disagree with. The underlying concept is, essentially, love the earth and your brothers and don't kill needlessly and be kind, et cetera.
And, I don't entirely disagree with knowing what an animal is doing from the tracks, as an animal will indeed walk differently if it has a bullet in it's rear. But if it has to go to the bathroom? Um... That's really Out There, if you know what I mean.
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby OzaawaaMigiziNini » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:21 am

LDS wrote:Where have you been Ozaa. We have not heard from you in months!


Been running in the woods and working my butt off at the company.

Sorry I haven't been around folks, been busy on the road, hope to make up for it immediately!
And when they heard of the dead, some mocked... and others said we will hear thee again, of this matter - Acts 17:32
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby coon4492 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:51 pm

HeritageFarm wrote: suppose a Christian would find a lot to disagree with


lol I think any Christian would find all of toms philosophy nothing more than worshiping false gods. Although religion is interpreted in different ways so other christians like yourself probably wouldn't find Tom as sinful. I prefer John mcphersons teachings over browns ever since dixieangler showed me who John Mcpherson was. I read through his book and I really enjoyed it I learned a good amount from it. The best thing Tom Brown Jr. ever did was invent the tracker knife design. That knife is one of my favorite knives and my most used knife.
"The diference between danger and food supply is simply the presence of a killing tool."

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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby dixieangler » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:21 pm

Tom's philosophy and religious beliefs are his own business. I don't agree with them because I have my own faith and I will voice my faith in Christ but I will not force my faith on others. I believe that the Lord God gives us freedom of choice as free moral agents to accept Christ or deny Him. So I guess you could say I ignore the spiritual overtones in Tom's books. Its the skills I am looking at, not his religion or beliefs. Probably the top three in primitive skills experts in books (the ones that actually walk the talk and put it into practice rather than writing about it from others that came before) are John & Geri McPherson, Larry Dean Olsen, and Tom Brown Jr. A lot of us come from one of these lines of thinking on primitive skills. I lean more to McPherson who to me wrote "the book" on primitive skills (almost step by step). Olsen is from the Western US and his materials and skills reflect that and his book Outdoor Survival Skills is very good. Tom Brown's books are comprehensive and also very good. But like most, I also will use modern materials if available to make tasks easier. I am no primitive skills purist.
- Robert M.

"I can do all things through Christ, who strengtheneth me." - Paul, c. A.D. 60 (Philippians 4:13)
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby admin » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:26 am

admin
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby dixieangler » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:32 pm

That was a good read and pretty much sums it up. Thanks, admin.
- Robert M.

"I can do all things through Christ, who strengtheneth me." - Paul, c. A.D. 60 (Philippians 4:13)
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby coon4492 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:12 pm

where was this article hiding when I was on this subject lol? Well it pretty much summed up what we've concluded here. Whether his stories are true or not doesn't matter, Tom knows his stuff regardless.
"The diference between danger and food supply is simply the presence of a killing tool."

- LDS
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby LDS » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:45 pm

I know some burglars that are experts on security systems too.
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby kailii » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:16 pm

I think i know an answer to the "tracked animal needs to urinate" problem by now.

My dog showed me. She is pretty ill for almost a year now, but still got a bladder that can hold a gallon for sure. When we were to leave a... say, study for alternate therapy 2 days ago, she showed some unknown haste. Leaving the building left little room to smell all those exciting other animals in here before, so i knew she was up to something. And i knew what was up when she finally relieved herself.
Combined with the fact that she was absolutely determined to get into the building earlier, just because she liked what was happening to here there before, i can state for sure that just by knowing her and looking at her tracks - say it was sand and not concrete - i would have known that she desperately needed to pee.

Now take a lonely wolf for example coming across a "landmark", where a member of another wolf family has urinated already. Most likely that lonely wolf will turn away. By comparing the track of this lonely wolf and the "landmark", one can easily find a conjunction between the track and the "landmark".

Of course i leave the fine tones to the experts as i am still but a newbie, but i still believe that i have found an easy explanation for a difficult question. And that is how i see Tom Brown these days.

Take what you can from what he (and of course many others) has to offer. And learn. :)
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Re: Tom Brown Jr. Fraud?

Postby Kortoso » Fri May 20, 2011 8:04 pm

It doesn't matter to me that Tom can't produce grandfather's birth certificate. I doubt if the old guy ever left a trace of his passing. :)

I'll never forget how Tom told me in the Standard Class, that most people go into the wilds like a scuba diver into the water, into an alien environment, with sophisticated equipment crafted by an advanced technological civilizaion, without which the diver would not survive a few minutes. He said, I am instead going to show you how look at those woods like they're your home.

Now whether Tom made this all up, or actually learned from Grandfather, or some combination of the two, doesn't matter to me, since he taught me in the style of those who came before us, for whom escape to civilzation was impossible, so they thrived, not survived, in the wilderness, and gave birth to generations of babies there, and celebrated the spirits of the wild in their own way.

Seems to me that too many survivalists look at nature as an enemy to be contended with. I prefer, with Tom, to cherish our wild heritage, and to love Nature in the way of our ancestors.
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