Boiling Water

[Capn Mike]

I am rather new to this so please help me out. I have always been told that bringing water to a rolling boil would kill any paisites that could cause diarea or other problems. I have also read this in sevreal places. But, I have a friend that I am planning an overnighter with in the bush that got pretty upset with me when I mentioned boilling our water. He was in the US Army stationed in Panama; he said that you have to use Idione to make the water safe (he was pretty serious). I know Idione, bleach, clhorine, and other methods work but, is boilg water enough (after it has been filterd in some way)? Is it posible that this is what the US Army teaches, or that is what they told him because they were in Panama. From everything I have read Boilling your water will make it safe (unless you have to worry about chemical contaminates).
Any advice would be great.
Thanks.

[dixieangler]

I know Idione, bleach, clhorine, and other methods work but, is boilg water enough (after it has been filterd in some way)? Is it posible that this is what the US Army teaches, or that is what they told him because they were in Panama. From everything I have read Boilling your water will make it safe (unless you have to worry about chemical contaminates).

This topic can be found further back in previous posts so you can look at those. Sometimes common sense plays a role when having to use ground water sources. No plants are growing around a water source can be a red flag not to drink or say dead animals nearby, maybe upstream, or in the water itself. From all I have read on the subject, Tom Brown Jr. (well known) has said (see book Wilderness Survival) that the only way to make sure water is safe from pathogens is to boil and then for twenty minutes because shorter boiling times will not kill all the spore stage bacteria. This does not eliminate chemicals, particulate toxins, metals, etc. in the water that need to be filtered out first as much as possible. Some of these (like metals) can be filtered out using layered filtering (charcoal, grass, sand) but not chemicals (unfortunately there is no way to remove chemicals except by modern elaborate micro filtering systems). The metals and such will cling to the charcoal and many other particles will be filtered by the grass and sand. Chemical purification like iodine and chlorine will kill some but not all pathogens (you take more of a risk here than filtration and boiling) but is better than nothing especially if you cannot light a fire. Any treatment of water is better than no treatment of water but bear in mind that you take risks using less treatment. More treatment is better than less treatment. So rolling boil, five minute boil, ten minute boil, ect. is better than no boiling at all. Some filtration is better than no filtration. You get the idea. Assume that any water is contaminated other than pure sources like rain, some vine and plant water, dew, transpiration (plant leaf sweating), and evaporation (solar still, ect.). Be careful that pure sources are not contaminated by containers or by toxic plants. Hope this helps some.

[Capn Mike]

Thank you that is alot of help. I am going to have to get Tom Brown Jr.s book. I have been hearing alot about him.

[dixieangler]

Tom Brown Jr. has a lot of books but if you only get one of them, get Field Guide to Wilderness Survival. The John & Geri McPherson book Primitive Wilderness Living & Survival Skills like Brown's book is also one of those books I keep going back to for reference. Both of those two books are my favorites I keep going back to time after time for reference.

The other two books I use are for plant reference. Peterson Field Guides two books Edible Wild Plants and Medicinal Plants and Herbs. There are also online web sites with plant information. Always positively identify any plant before using it. Confirm plant identities by going to botanical authorities like county extension services or college and university botany professors.

[Capn Mike]

Tom Brown Jr. has a lot of books but if you only get one of them, get Field Guide to Wilderness Survival.

I got it, thanks for the advise. I am learning alot from it; Now I will have to find the others you mentioned. Thanks for the help.

[coon4492]

The US army survival guide actually says that boiling water will work. Boiling water does kill parasites and bacteria but I think (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) chemicals in the water won't be killed by boiling water. If the water source is polluted with chemicals then boiling won't remove that.

[Kortoso]

The US army survival guide actually says that boiling water will work. Boiling water does kill parasites and bacteria but I think (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) chemicals in the water won't be killed by boiling water. If the water source is polluted with chemicals then boiling won't remove that.

You are correct, sir.

Also, the length of time that you boil and the temperature are not absolutes. Less time or lower temperature will kill fewer parasites, but may be enough for you to handle.

[Kingoftheflock]

you have a better chance of avoiding bacteria if you get the water from a running source. unfortunately, rivers and lakes alike, with the messed up waterways of the modern world will have chemicals in them from residential areas (damn suburbs) and factories. but even then rivers would be a better option, becuase the chemicals will be more dispersed than in a lake where it would be more concentrated. then again, if the rivers and lakes are relatively chemical free, the level of the chemicals in the water wont have a negative effect on you.

[Kortoso]

Umm, the fact that the water is running has no bearing on whether it has harmful parasites or not.

I know of one stream in particular that drains a particularly turgid swamp. I would not drink from there without treatment.

Go close to the source. I haven't verified this, but a spring, just as it comes out of a rocky hillside, has less chance of being contaminated, since it's the organic decomposition that carries the parasites.

[dixieangler]

About the only thing good about running water is that there is less concentration of pathogens but running water does not mean there are no pathogens. The flowing water tends to disperse them more. Pathogens are still there from a flowing source even though you might stand less of a chance (almost negligible) contracting them than from a static or standing source. I can recall drinking straight from a creek when I was young and ignorant. I took a huge risk and was very fortunate not to have contracted anything so I praise the Lord and give him the glory. I really had no choice at the time as I recall. No way to boil it. I could have at least filtered it through the sand but I was young and ignorant to the danger. There also were not as many folks in Florida as there are today so probably less polluted.

[coon4492]

unfortunately, rivers and lakes alike, with the messed up waterways of the modern world will have chemicals in them from residential areas (damn suburbs) and factories.

Well it really depends on how close you are to civilization. Bucks county use to have very clean streams and lakes then again we also use to have british soldiers shooting at us and George washington sailing on the delaware river your right our are has been destroyed by suburbs but if you go up into a more wild area in PA the waters are cleaner and all it takes is a good boiling to kill the bad things in the water. I wouldn't trust the lake or creek water by my house even if it was boiled because the waters so polluted. I've been working with the local trout unlimited chapter to try and clean up alot of streams in bucks county. Most of the streams we've worked on aren't polluted by any chemicals and there now clean enough for wild trout so it's getting better king. running water is probably safer to drink than still water your right about that but you should always filter and boil water wether its running or still.

[Kingoftheflock]

Umm, the fact that the water is running has no bearing on whether it has harmful parasites or not.

I know of one stream in particular that drains a particularly turgid swamp. I would not drink from there without treatment.

Go close to the source. I haven't verified this, but a spring, just as it comes out of a rocky hillside, has less chance of being contaminated, since it's the organic decomposition that carries the parasites.

i never said parasites. i said bacteria. what i mean by that is running water is always going to a source. for example, mosquitos breed in still water, not running water. then that case i mean bacteria and diseases.

[dixieangler]

then that case i mean bacteria and diseases.

Running water won't get rid of them either, just spread them out a little bit. Again I think the benefit of running water to standing water is not much better. Same goes for trying to gather water from a deeper portion of a standing water source. The thinking that there are more pathogens near the shallow portion of water may be true but again that benefit is not much better. Meaning that if the water is contaminated then it is entirely contaminated, not just in certain areas. Running crystal clear water can still carry pathogens (germs, viruses, bacteria are pathogens: any disease-producing agent, esp. a virus, bacterium, or other microorganism.), metals, chemicals, and toxins that we cannot see unless it is gathered directly from a spring source in which case it still may need to be filter treated (can still have metals and toxins even though no pathogens). Some spring sources or underground sources may be so full of metals (copper, iron, etc.) that it might not be possible to filter enough of them out.

If a ground water source is poisoned (chemically) and/or disease ridden (no plants growing nearby or dead animals nearby or in the water possibly upstream), filtration and boiling is probably a waste of time. So don't drink it in the first place if you see the signs. Drinking it might kill you.

Still talking primitive means here, not modern filtration gizmos. Layer filter and boil for twenty is what I would do so I know its safe. Every different ground water source will have its own odor and flavor (LOL) both of which are usually nasty. About the only way I know of to get rid of the odor is either pouring the water back and forth from one container to another or drop a piece of charcoal in the water for thirty to fourty-five minutes. The flavor cannot be removed (layer filter and boiling will help remove some bad taste and odor), only masked or covered up a little if you have something like Kool-Aid packs, lacking those, maybe making a weak pine needle tea (put some crushed pine needles in the hot water for about five minutes) or other kind of natural tea from leaves, roots, etc. I would still try to get pure sources (rain, dew, some non-toxic vine and plant sources, transpiration, and evaporation) first before having to resort to ground water sources for the above reasons.