Question on heartwood

[hatman]

New to the bowdrill, got my first ember yesterday off a bone dry chunk of ceder lumber that was sitting in my basement. Now, I've read over much of the posts here related to this method so I shouldn't be bothering with already answered questions. My concern right now is gathering samples of wood to dry off and use later. I've gathered that so long as you avoid the heartwood in Ceder it can be usable, though basswood, poplar, willow and others are more recommended. I suppose my primary question is: should I be avoiding heartwood in any type of wood, or is that just specific to Ceder due to the high resin content? Are narrow branches usable for spindles or should I only make spindles out of chunks cut out of logs? If I can find a large dead ceder, say 7 or 8 inches in diameter, how far in can I go, say 2 or 3 inches or am I limited to the almost white colored stuff on the very outside? Thanks.

[coon4492]

this is a good question for dixieangler he seems to be the local bow drill expert on the forum

[dixieangler]

New to the bowdrill, got my first ember yesterday off a bone dry chunk of ceder lumber that was sitting in my basement.

Great. You will never forget that first coal. It is really an awesome feeling.

I suppose my primary question is: should I be avoiding heartwood in any type of wood, or is that just specific to Ceder due to the high resin content? Are narrow branches usable for spindles or should I only make spindles out of chunks cut out of logs? If I can find a large dead ceder, say 7 or 8 inches in diameter, how far in can I go, say 2 or 3 inches or am I limited to the almost white colored stuff on the very outside? Thanks.

1st question: Not just to Cedar. Avoid resin in pine type wood. Pine type wood that has no resin should be good since it is softwood. Don't get hung up on wood names and types. Look for wood characteristics by using the thumbnail test. Wood that etches with your thumbnail (medium wood) should work fine. Wood that is too hard or hardwood will either not etch or leave a "very" light etch. Hardwood is just too hard for me to get dust for a dust pile, but it works well for a bearing block. Wood that is soft (softwood) will leave a "very" deep gouge. Punky rotten wood will punch down too deeply. I have had my most success with medium wood. I have used some softwoods but have failed to get a coal so far but I will keep working with it. Softwood should work provided that it is not resinous. The wood should be dead and completely dry.

2nd question: Spindles can be made from branches. Straight, dead, and dry. Try to get a diameter around 1/2 inch to 5/8 inch. Small diameter spindles can burn through a baseboard faster than a good amount of dust can be formed and faster than a coal can be formed. Try to cut your baseboard (dead and dry) so it is as thick or thicker than your spindle. If the board is thinner than your spindle, you could run into the same problem as above by burning down through the board too quickly. A spindle can be whittled from a log and is actually better than using a branch. Inner trunk wood is softer than branch wood.

3rd question: I know very little about Cedar other than it is reputed to be one of the easier woods to use (provided it is not resinous). I can only suggest that you use any non-resinous wood from the Cedar. If you go too deep though, you run the risk of getting into wood that may be more resinous than wood in the outer portion of a log or tree trunk.

Hope this helps.

this is a good question for dixieangler he seems to be the local bow drill expert on the forum

Surely you jest. If I was an expert with the firebow, I would have done it over 500 times and be able to get a coal every time I work the firebow. Let's just say I'm not there yet on either account and I doubt I ever will be. I am confident that I can get a coal if I really put my mind to working the firebow set. Notice I did not say put my mind to getting a coal, that is when I don't get a coal. LOL

[hatman]

Cool, thanks for the reply. Up to 6 coals so far, I seem to be getting them reliably now with the bone dry set. That first one seems to have been a breakthrough moment for me. I'm also practicing getting the ember into a tinder bundle and blown to flame. The latter seems to be pretty down pat now (I've been messing around with a ferro rod and magnifying glass like some naughty elementary school kid with a pilfered pack of matches), I suppose I should stop wasting ceder bark. I got three embers today off a ceder set I made yesterday from a dead stump I found. Very dry, pretty much disintegrated on the inside but the outer 2 inches was solid enough. It's a bit fragile (tip of the spindle kept breaking off) but seems reliable enough.
I'm trying to learn to identify trees as well so I try to keep that in mind while scavenging. Picked up some chunks of Weeping Willow and Eastern Cottonwood yesterday, both from dead limbs; they'll need a few weeks to dry out though. I'll keep practicing with the dry ceder sets till they're ready. Still no Basswood or Poplar, though they supposedly grow around here.

[dixieangler]

The latter seems to be pretty down pat now (I've been messing around with a ferro rod and magnifying glass like some naughty elementary school kid with a pilfered pack of matches), I suppose I should stop wasting ceder bark.

School kid? Nothing wrong with learning skills safely. Study, help, and advice is nice but the only way to learn skills is by doing. If you have enough Cedar around, then practice away.

I'm trying to learn to identify trees as well so I try to keep that in mind while scavenging. Picked up some chunks of Weeping Willow and Eastern Cottonwood yesterday, both from dead limbs; they'll need a few weeks to dry out though. I'll keep practicing with the dry ceder sets till they're ready. Still no Basswood or Poplar, though they supposedly grow around here.

Well plant identification is "very" important (critical) if I was collecting food or medicine but not for friction fire or cordage. As long as I can spot the characteristics, I don't need to worry about identities for fire and cordage. For friction fire wood I do as outlined above with the thumbnail test. For cordage I look for (strong) fiberous plants and bark. However it is nice to get to know what wood or fiber exactly I am using but not critical. I have gotten to know the ones that I am using though for wood and fiber. Willow and Maple have been the best wood for me so far. I am still using Yucca for both wood and cordage but have not gotten a coal with the wood yet. I am using Cocklebur, Velvetleaf, and Yucca for cordage but I am looking for Wood Nettle lately. Cocklebur is the best when in season but breaks down and rots out of season just like Velvetleaf so the Yucca leaf fibers are more reliable year round. I figure Wood Nettle might be a year round fiber like Yucca. We have no Cottonwood, Cedar, or Poplar here where I live that I know of (and so says the USDA and other databases also). We are suppose to have Basswood but I believe that it grows further up north of where I live (I know it grows in Seminole County up north). I will keep an eye out for it though. I hear Cottonwood is excellent for friction wood like Cedar. You may need longer for your wood to dry out. If there is even a little bit of moisture, you could end up with bits of wood or tan brown colored dust no matter how much pressure you apply to the board. Very dark or black dust is what you want. I have made that mistake before when I only waited about a week for it to dry. If I want completely dry wood that I cut green, I try to set the wood in a place that gets plenty of direct sunlight and air but out of the weather. I typically use my dashboard a lot of times but I wait at least a month before trying to use it maybe longer depending on that first try. Waiting for green wood to dry for practice is fine but try going out and doing all of it (friction fire) using found dead and dry wood. That is the kind of practice that prepares you. This is why finding dead and dry wood is important. You may need it right away in a crisis and you won't be able to use it if it is still green.

[dixieangler]

I'm also practicing getting the ember into a tinder bundle and blown to flame.

FYI. You can eliminate the step of transferring the coal to the tinder bundle by placing the tinder bundle directly under the baseboard. Be sure to mash down the tinder close to the burn hole or the tinder may get caught and ride up the burn hole and spindle. This way the coal will already be in the tinder bundle. If I am practicing, I don't do a tinder bundle. I just focus on working the firebow set but prep for a coal with a piece of green leaf under the baseboard and burn hole so it will hold the coal just in case I get lucky. LOL

[hatman]

Thanks again. I'm getting better it seems. Yesterday and today I sent myself out with a knife, rope and a break down bucksaw to see if I could find suitable wood, fashion a set and make it work. Success both times, Ceder last night, and what I believe was Maple today (the wood was long dead, barkless, hanging in a tree but the area was predominately Maples). Regardless it passed the dryness test (shaving a slice and bending it to see if it snaps) and was solid enough (I knaw my fingernails so the back of my knife has to do). The Might-be-Maple was definitely harder. I kept getting fuzzy strands, not fine dust until I got the hang of the set and gave it all I had. I'm not really very strong in the upper body so I can't really muscle through these things. I suppose that's good as it's forcing me to figure out body positioning and style that works for me. I made myself find tinder other than ceder bark this time also, dry grass and some punk from a rotten log. No lack of ceder in the Ottawa region, but I might as well get used to finding other options.
Cordage is something I'm also interested in trying out. I've got some Milkweed stalks drying out to try out later. I got the impression that barks tend to have to be soaked in water for a period before they can be used. I'm thinking of seeing if this stuff that grows abundantly around here called Japanese Knotweed might have cordage potential. I was originally looking at it as a hand drill material (since the stalks are long, narrow and straight) but they're also hollow so no go. Could be good to hold a small ceder tip in place if the stalk dries hard I suppose.
I'm also curious about the hand drill. Plenty of mullein around, cat tails also. I've read someone talk about Willow shoots, I'm guessing that means the new green branches that grow abundantly where a tree or branch is cut off. I'm guessing snip a couple off and dry them out? Sumac also sometimes grows long straight shoots and is pretty plentiful here. Not sure if that could be a decent material.

[dixieangler]

That's great. Now you are prepared and know you could do it all if you needed to. Retting does clean up the fibers making them smoother and easier to work with for cording them. I should ret my fibers but I usually don't because I want to cord the fibers and use the cord right away. Just remember you can use a natural cord on the firebow one of two ways that I know of. You can either use two single cords, one to burn the hole, and one for the final run like John McPherson does. Just one single cord won't take the stress through the whole process (at least I haven't found one yet that can). Or you can double three single cords into one doubled cord. I have not had success with the hand drill yet but John McPherson has me using a small Yucca wood baseboard and a dead and dry Cattail stalk because he claims that is his best hand drill combination. In his DVD video, they use Mullein stalk on a Cottonwood baseboard for the hand drill. I have not seen any Mullein growing here and we have no Cottonwood that I know of here either.

[hatman]

I can understand wanting to get right to the cordage making, I get itching to try things when I get interested in them, or more accurately, obsessed to the point of trying till it works. My fascination with the bow drill started two weeks ago when it was demonstrated to me by a man I met while camping in Nova Scotia. I tried a few times after that, utterly failing (I think I was using white pine). Got back to the internet, found this site, read all I could then tried a couple more times till it worked. Couldn't wait for wood to dry. All this 'wait till the milkweed dies to harvest' and 'dry for 5 days before using' try patience. I believe Cat tail is almost ready to harvest here, some sources I've read suggest it's good to bring in once the tips start turning brown, which they are. Ultimately I'd like to work up to doing the bow drill with cordage, but I have other uses/ reasons. I got into knot tying this summer (practical and decorative). It would certainly be nice to make a crown sinnet keychain with a few turk's heads made entirely from some 'weeds' pulled out of a field or ditch for someone's Christmas present. Twisting cordage would also give me something constructive to do while watching episodes of whatever sci-fi series I'm plowing through at the moment.
I found both live and dead Mullein stalks when I hunted, the dead ones were pretty hard (almost like a tree branch of similar thickness), though the pith is softer. I assume they're from last year. I gave the hand drill a bit of an attempt today with the dry Mullein stalk and a Ceder base, nothing but the beginnings of a blister on my palm and some warmth. It squeaked a lot and the Mullein pith got hard and shiny but nothing much shaved off the Ceder and it certainly was nowhere near warm enough. I suppose one eventually develops callouses on the key areas of the hands when practicing these skills enough (like the knife callous cooks get at the base of the index finger).

[dixieangler]

Got back to the internet, found this site, read all I could then tried a couple more times till it worked.

You mean we actually posted some things that helped you? LOL Or maybe you just got it from the articles on main site? In any case it helped you. Great.

I don't think Cattail cord will do the job (take the stress) for the firebow. Great for cording and lashing for baskets and such but I don't think the fibers are strong enough for the severe stress of the firebow. If I can take a single cord that I have made and with my own strength, stretch it and break it, then it is not strong enough. That is my first cording test for a natural firebow cord. Bottom line is, I try to find fibers that when corded, don't break after I have made a single natural cord by testing it with my own arm strength.

Oh yes, callouses do come with the hand drill among other things. Tie a piece of cord to the top of the hand drill with a clove hitch. Let the two ends hang down and tie a loop in each end for thumb holds. Now you have eliminated the need to climb your hands back up the drill (cooling things off some) and can keep constant downward pressure on the baseboard with constant spinning.

[dixieangler]

Glory be and praise the Lord! I finally got a coal with a Yucca spindle on an old dead and dry Willow baseboard on the firebow today. First time getting a coal using Yucca wood. Just the two materials that I collected earlier this afternoon from an old dead Willow tree and a dead and dry Yucca stalk (stem). I used my Oak socket and firebow with a nylon string (no natural doubled cord today). Burned down to the bottom of the board and saw the dust pile change colors top to bottom from tan to brown to black. I had smoke coming from the board. At first I thought I had failed again after I tapped the board so the dust pile fell on the leaf and no smoke coming from the dust pile. Then I saw smoke coming from the board laying nearby (LOL) and there was a small coal trapped in the notch so I poked it out with an old pine needle into a tinder bundle (this time I had a tinder bundle even though I was practicing). It blew right into flame. The coal was small so I didn't wait on this one very long to get it into the tinder bundle. Whole thing from start to finish on the board took about a half of a minute.

[dixieangler]

Dry tinder. We know this and have heard it before. I tried to get by on marginal tinder today. I had a coal today same as above (larger coal this time) but the tinder was still damp I guess or not dry enough. The coal just would not catch the tinder. Eventually the coal broke apart and went out in the tinder bundle after carefully blowing into the tinder. Preparation is critical so tinder needs to be completely dry.

[dixieangler]

Using the same woods as before but this time with a natural doubled Yucca cord and DRY tinder, I got a huge coal (the biggest I have ever had with smoke billowing up from it. LOL) today that I blew into flame. I am finding out (the hard way) that I only need just enough pressure between the socket and the board to keep the spindle in place (from jumping out) and with constant (not fast) full strokes on the firebow that I will get a coal more consistently. The coals are now coming more regularly because of this and that the Willow board is OLD (wood fibers of the wood are not rotten but softer than if they were not old), dead, and dry. The older the Willow the better as long as its not rotten because it is soft enough for the soft Yucca spindle. Otherwise the Willow will not be soft enough for the Yucca spindle and I would be better off with a Willow spindle. The result is that I don't get tired working the firebow set. I figure that if I get tired that I must be doing something wrong, in this case I had been putting way too much pressure on the board that was not needed. This sometimes also resulted in boring through the board too fast.

P.S.
I will post some of my trials and tribulations with the firebow from time to time in the hopes that others will avoid my mistakes. Just let me know if you don't want to read my ramblings about failures and successes or if they are not helping you and I will stop. Thanks.

[dixieangler]

When using medium woods that are standing, dead and dry, such as Willow, Maple, etc. for baseboards and spindles, after the wood is cut it begins to age. If left to weather before cutting, the bark will begin to fall off. At this point I have gotten the best wood as it has aged to the point where the wood density is just before the stage of going punky or rotten. This means the wood is softer and will work with my soft Yucca spindles (otherwise the wood density is harder requiring more board pressure and I would want to use a Willow spindle of the same wood as the board). Problem is the weak wood wants to break more easily and it becomes more difficult to seat the spindle (wants to wallow out a larger hole). Best in that it is soft and usually only requires very little pressure on the board (just enough to hold the spindle in place between the socket and board most of the time) and coal formation is much quicker. But I still want black dust so I have to watch to make sure my board pressure right. Case in point, the other day I went through a lot of spindles and boards and did not get even one coal. Must have drilled half a dozen holes or more all because I wasn't paying attention to the dust color (pressure on board was not enough) and I never did get black dust. Yeah, the firebow will humble you and humiliate you at times. LOL Like John McPherson said in his DVD video on Fire and Cordage, you don't learn anything if everything goes right with fire-making.